About Skinning for Blackhole Image

[Thomas67]

Hi i have some question about skinning for BlackHole Image. I skin for personal use so are using Matrix skin code as my baseline (Default skin MX_HQ10). I have done new graphics like infobars buttons and Borders.

My question is, When testing the skin it allways crash on the border grapichs is there some standard they
have to be? Like colors and transparence settings? I have try 256 websafe color with and without transparence, same with 16,7 million (24bit) but same problem. I don get any crashlog, no Blackscreen
just frozen bootlogo. When i remove them and put the original back everything is working with the skin.

If i run the same skin in OpenBlackhole everything is working just fine with the graphics. Of cause
since skin code is for Blackhole some panels are not showing right in OBH but all graphics are working.

Could some one maybe give me some basics knowledge graphicsto use with BlackHole skins?

Here are some screenshots from OBH 4.2

 

[Ev0]

Try 32bit instead of 24

 

[Thomas67]

I got it working hade to copy my png in as new layer in to the original border png, then merg all visible layers and save.
So my 24bit png is not the problem there must be some limitation in BlackHole skinning that blocks custom made grapichs. I now you have some built in python code that blocks all skins not made by Matrix or Army
Maybe there are some more code that limits some of the grapichs also?

A 32 bit PNG is the same as 24 bit PNG + alpha so its common called 32bit but there is no full 32 bit png because they are 24bit RGB+8bit channels for transparent and therfor never can be a 32 bit real color image.
Only CMYK color images ca be real 32 bit and png cant be saved with CMYK colors.

 

[Ev0]

As far as I know, there is no code to block custom graphics.

 

[Shiro]

No there are no limits.
There are only differences caused by the different enigma2 code and versions.

 

[Thomas67]

Well it still funny that custom graphics made with Corel Paintshop pro just want work but the same graphic works just fine when copy and past in to an original bs_tr, bs_tl and bs_t.png and saved the same way as without the original.
To me it seems like its in the png metadata but it does not matter its working and i can go forward

p.s Matrix they dont make your life easy my friend, would it not be nice if the coders could merge OBH skinning with BH so you only hade to make one skin for both images

Thanks for all answers and help

 

[Shiro]

If the OBH and BH would use the same code and skins we didn't need two images.
We have two images because they are different and not compatible.
So please be polite if you want to stay here.

 

[Thomas67]

I am sorry if i tripped on any toes here my p.s to Matrix was just an appreciationfor his work and an understanding of how much work he has to put in to make the same skin for both images.
If i was unpolite to suggest some common standard for skinning well then this forum have a low treshold for opinion.

But this fells so like everything with this forum. Its dead nobody can say anything or have a opinion without some of the staff drumms down with the threath of banning.
My suggestion is to close the forum and only have a downlod site for your images.

And yes i know by opening my mouth now i am banned for life so goodby and see you at all the other forums out there

 

[Matrix10]

I went through everything you wrote.
Much of this is untrue,or in part.
But I do not mind you because you do not know all the details of the image and skins.
This can not be done without running a couple of years on the image and skins.

There is no secret coding in the image and skins.
There is only control within skin.xml over whether the skin is good for a particular image version.
So we prevent users from installing a bad skin in the image.What would in the contrary cause a lot of image crash .

We make two images because it is not possible to make one and everyone is happy.
The same goes for skins.
There is an essential difference in coding based on OE-A / Pli and VU + base.
The same is true for skins, coding and graphics support. This is not the same in Black Hole and Open Black Hole.
We have written about this many times.
We do not have a hundred coders to make a third platform which would make some sort of image that is ideal.
Such an image and coding does not exist.

What's about the skins
I really do not have time to make or help with skins on a personal basis.
For example, I had to cover over 40 skins within a month.
And when we add the rest of it, testing images, bootlogos, spinners, moderating etc
It is clear that this is impossible.
So I do not see any reason for some anger and discussion abt all this.

 

[Shiro]

I will explain for the last time.
Bh and OBH are not compatible.
If bh code goto obh code it will lost compatibility with future Vu+ commits
If obh code goto bh code it will lost compatibility with future OE-A commits.
We have 2 images to make all happy but image are different and you cannot ask a feature of bh in obh and vice-versa.

 

[AlexWilMac]

Just to cool down the conversation, I really believe Thomas67 didn't mean to be rude. He wrote "Matrix they don't make your life easy, my friend", meaning that Matrix needs to double the work on skins and then putting him in his shoes.
Then, obviously, he could not know that this idea of having the same skins' code for both image is technically impossible and Shiro made it clear.
But there was nothing rude, in his words, I believe. They were only technically ingenuous.

 

[Gold_66]

My humble advice to Thomas67 (if he's still around) would be to stick to OBH as it's much more 'flexible' when it comes to skin modification. I used to play a lot with the wonderful 'Maestra2' skin when I was on OBH. You can try many new ideas with graphics, it nearly never crashes, but just doesn't show what you added if it 'dislikes' them.
The keyword for me was '32bit' as Ev0 suggested. Not all graphics apps are able to save images with transparency in that format, so I had found a freeware called 'Fotografix' if it could be of any use to you.
Nice infobar btw, a bit exaggerated in some parts, but I like the Armani clock.

 

[Thomas67]

There now we have a cival converstion about two good images and on really good skinner who gladly pots tons of hours in to making his skin avalible for both images. and as Alexwilmac so kindly refers to i was only giving credit to Matrix.
and if the common policy is that those two images should be 100% separate well thats nothing i should putmy nose into again, i only did suggest it would be nice with some common skinning code for images in general.
There was no hostile or any way offensive meaning from me to any of the crew behaind this images it was just an suggestion no more or no less. But there is a short temper over this forum from the crew
dont now why but let us dropp this and please delete the whole post from the forum. you have succesfully silenced me now and i go back in to the darksnes as a forum browser as the mayority of members here.

 

[Matrix10]

I do not like much discussions.
I still like much more to work on skins and graphics.

Many forget that before the release of each image
and now there are many
our small team compared to the size of the job has a lot of work.
So there is not much left for the forum.


But to explain some things because I started with the skins with Enigma 1 ,so many years ago.
It all went at the very beginning and much in the wrong direction.
That is why it is now impossible to set up a kind of universal system
for skin coding.

Besides, we all have different opinions and ideas about it.
How to, image coders, plugins coders, teams and skiners.
So impossible.

It is not true that Open Black Hole has a easier coding.
On the contrary, many panels extra.
The difference is that Open Black Hole has the protection that the image does not crashes for every error in skin coding or missing image png files (and different graphic formats 8bit,hicolor ...)
There is VU + coding and Black Hole itself very strict.
And any minor bug can cause image crash.Now whether is this plus or minus depends on how we look at the faults.
Still, there is one advantage over Black Hole ,the graphics for me looks better in Black Hole , for me an unknown reason.

So briefly said
after many years Enigma2 it is "almost" impossible to change the coding of the skins
without huge consequences on the images, plugins and everything else.

 

[wahyura]

Hi i have some question about skinning for BlackHole Image. I skin for personal use so are using Matrix skin code as my baseline (Default skin MX_HQ10). I have done new graphics like infobars buttons and Borders.

My question is, When testing the skin it allways crash on the border grapichs is there some standard they
have to be? Like colors and transparence settings? I have try 256 websafe color with and without transparence, same with 16,7 million (24bit) but same problem. I don get any crashlog, no Blackscreen
just frozen bootlogo. When i remove them and put the original back everything is working with the skin.

If i run the same skin in OpenBlackhole everything is working just fine with the graphics. Of cause
since skin code is for Blackhole some panels are not showing right in OBH but all graphics are working.

Could some one maybe give me some basics knowledge graphicsto use with BlackHole skins?

Here are some screenshots from OBH 4.2

View attachment 40662 View attachment 40663
View attachment 40664

Where i can download this skin ?????

 

[Thomas67]

I love to read your comment Matrix you are allways good to explain your point of view. I have also been around since the beginning of time long before we hade the first enigma boxes. I have done much work like plugins and coding but allways for personal use since almost everything is someone elses work from the beginning and to share upgrade and new functions for plugin and even images that someone else has done the major work has never been my goal.


And to wahyura....
Skin is Matrix HQ_10 and its not for sharing. Skin is not even finnished yet have a lot of graphics to re build. And if it ever would be avalible for public use then Matrix has to give his seal of approval.
Only way would be as an addon to his skin. That would work like this.
You have to download and install his skin from addons panel and later upload and install mod trough manual install bh packages
packagages would only include modded files and graphics and not work as a stand alone skin

But for now and a good time in to the future there will not be any options to download and use any of this skin.

 

[Thomas67]

Here are some update to the skin graphics. Buttons selectbars and icons. I did borrow some icons from Army why invent the wheel when it allready been done and are perfect. I try to get hold of Army to get his approval but the guy
seems to visit the forum just a few times a year so just have to wait.

My first opinion was that skinning for OBH is easier and i still have that opinion. I like the include xml file you can do with OBH so for me who have converted several skins like "SlyQ, VirginSkin and Freesat" (with the approval from the skin authosr of cause) from ATV/VIX to OBH think this is nice
Why... well because i dont have to rewrite all panels just include the missing panels for Addons, Settings and Bluepanel. all other panels work just fine as they are since images are built on Open Alliance.

I also modded my OBH image so it have Infopanel from ATV, VixPanel from OpenVix. I added Nab_ExtraInfobar, Redpanel and SysInfo panel from Blackhole so i can check my skins without rebooting in to the other images
until the final testing then of cause all images must be tested separate. I also found out what the problem with Blackhole border graphic was Blackhole are as matrix explained much more strick when it comes to skincode. If graphic bs_t is just 1 pixel wrong in size it will crash so i hade to be more accurate when sizing.
So now all is working just fine in Blackhole also and in someway i might change my opinion... Because when a skin is working in Blackhole there is no small bugs or wrongs and i the end that is what we all want.
So in the future i will use Blackhole skincode as my baseline and build from that.

Still some workl left but i am getting there..

 

[>>Artorius<<]

Some nice mods Thomas.

 

[Seth_72]

Here are some update to the skin graphics. Buttons selectbars and icons. I did borrow some icons from Army why invent the wheel when it allready been done and are perfect. I try to get hold of Army to get his approval but the guy
seems to visit the forum just a few times a year so just have to wait.

My first opinion was that skinning for OBH is easier and i still have that opinion. I like the include xml file you can do with OBH so for me who have converted several skins like "SlyQ, VirginSkin and Freesat" (with the approval from the skin authosr of cause) from ATV/VIX to OBH think this is nice
Why... well because i dont have to rewrite all panels just include the missing panels for Addons, Settings and Bluepanel. all other panels work just fine as they are since images are built on Open Alliance.

I also modded my OBH image so it have Infopanel from ATV, VixPanel from OpenVix. I added Nab_ExtraInfobar, Redpanel and SysInfo panel from Blackhole so i can check my skins without rebooting in to the other images
until the final testing then of cause all images must be tested separate. I also found out what the problem with Blackhole border graphic was Blackhole are as matrix explained much more strick when it comes to skincode. If graphic bs_t is just 1 pixel wrong in size it will crash so i hade to be more accurate when sizing.
So now all is working just fine in Blackhole also and in someway i might change my opinion... Because when a skin is working in Blackhole there is no small bugs or wrongs and i the end that is what we all want.
So in the future i will use Blackhole skincode as my baseline and build from that.

Still some workl left but i am getting there..

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The original is my favorite has always been and will alway bee that