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Discussion in 'Black Hole Epg' started by casper, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. casper

    casper Vu+ Newbie

    I have been using BH for quite a long time and originally it only contained CrossEPG. Now i version 2 and i am running v 2.0.8 there are two EPG control areas, one in the main Menu listed as 'EPG Panel' there is also a second contol panel in the Setup menu listed as 'CrossEPG'.
    My question is why do we have two menu panels which seem to do similar things and when or why should one be used rather than the other.
    There has to be a reason why both exist but i cannot find any detailed explanation about their usage and when one or other should be used.

    I run a motorised Sat system and would like to achieve good setup of EPG's on multiple sats using a VU+ Ultimo but can achieve reasonable operation on one sat using openTV but attempts with multiple sats has resulted in very poor operation. Setups are mostly trial and error. I would expect the designers to provide some form of user guide and explanation on how to use various sections.

    Can anyone provide any clarity on when, why and how the two different EPG menu's should be used.
    van12 and Steffan like this.
  2. tuneboy2005

    tuneboy2005 Vu+ Newbie

    That is a question i also wonder? What is better? the build in blackhole EPG or CrossEPG?
    Steffan likes this.
  3. kleinerjunge

    kleinerjunge Vu+ Newbie

    Same question for me.

    As it also says in 2.0.8 image description: Black Hole is best EPG image. Ok, but how tu use it? Is there a newbie tutorial concerning EPG modes??

  4. Panc88

    Panc88 Vu+ Newbie

    I would be interested too in an EPG tutorial
  5. Gerry55

    Gerry55 Vu+ Newbie

    Hi casper
    I gave up on crossEPG, use enigma2-plugin-extensions-xmltvimport
  6. Matrix10

    Matrix10 Administrator

    In my opinion a bad choice,
    we already have enough possibilities in the image.

    But I'll try to answer in the next post on a couple of questions .
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  7. Matrix10

    Matrix10 Administrator

    Within the BH image we have two main options for EPG.

    One option is embodied EPG BH EPG and other CrossEPG (which is in addition).

    For Some of the providers within both options it is possible to use
    so called OpenTV providers
    With them it is possible to directly download the EPG from the transponder.

    Other providers use mostly EPG prepared by @Rytec and rytec team
    which arrives from the server over the Internet.

    The main difference between the BH EPG and CrossEPG files
    is that the BH EPG files they are in principle directly ready for use .
    (because they have already been converted for use within BH image from XMLTV epg)
    Resulting in very fast downloads.

    Within CrossEPG we have also differences

    We may use XEPGDB or XMLTV providers.
    We Do not enter more deeply into the processing technique

    But XEPGDB is faster and requires less processor work and memory for Conversion.

    I think it is clear
    that the quality of work of all these EPG options largely depend on
    people who prepare these files.

    Also, the strength of the Processor and the amount of memory affect
    possibilities and downloading speed for EPG
    and operating stability.

    We should not forget that the errors in the EPG data can cause image crash
    What is a protective mechanism from enigma system
    The same goes for older boxes with a lack of memory
    which is reserved for the work of the EPG.
    Many downloaded providers may cause crash
    because the EPG is being directly transferred into a memory.
    To also add
    it is possible that in some boxes work better BH EPG than CrossEpg and vice versa
    But for it to be tested on your box.

    To use the EPG
    we can also decide to give priority to the EPG
    that we get through the server or to EPG that comes directly
    from the transponder at the time of watching the channel.

    It can be configured and tested in the
    Blue >> Red >> Red (Global Settings) >> Enable EIT various options
    yes or no >> save

    I hope I've explained a little EPG work
    but maybe I have also make a mistake in the explanation
    because I do not know all the details.

    To add more

    for the operation of any EPG is necessary to use HDD or USB stick
    for downloading / processing files
    and exchange between the memory and the USB / HDD during
    on / off , reboot e.t.c
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  8. mysat-bs

    mysat-bs Vu+ User

    Thanks @Matrix10 for your explaination of the EPG. I have used various linux receivers but the EPG seems make me confused from time to time. Your explaination is at least some helps. However, I am still not very clear how to use these function or plugin to their max. I have posted an enquiry about the EPG for a while but no reply. I think many users may not need to know how they work on the background, but do need to know how to set them and make them function correctly.

    My EPG is working this moment after I have played the settings for a while. However, I am not very clear how I made them work, which configuration line to control which. Currently, the BH EPG panel is able to download data, but it never completes (ask me to wait, more than 10 minutes no action), I have to stop it by press the red button. The crossEPG has many configuration settings which I am not understand. The crossEPG downloader plugin seems not download the data, it finishs in a few seconds, but no epg will be found if I am not use the BH EPG pannel to make the download. Clearly, the settings are wrong somewhere.

    We do need some experts to write a brief instruction or tutorial for use these EPG.
    van12 and GSp like this.
  9. Matrix10

    Matrix10 Administrator

    I really do not understand what's so difficult to configure


    The main configuration

    1.Config Storage Device
    2. Scheduled download >>enable and specify a download if you want automatic operation
    3.Update rytec providers that you want to use (xmltv or xepgdb) or both
    4. Choose which way you want to use download
    xmltv or xepgdb
    you pick epg for providers that you want to download (OK button)
    The same for OpenTV providers (transponder epg download) if you like to use
    you pick epg for providers that you want to download (OK button)

    and that's all

    BH Epg

    The main configuration

    with blue>red>red config Path to save Epg
    config OpenTV (transponder EPG) download if you like to use

    For all servers epg (config one by one) that you want to download from servers
    with green button (Provider settings) >> red button
    config automatic refresh time
    and save
    rob gittins and suho like this.
  10. Eragon

    Eragon Moderator

    Please consider that CrossEPG uses a caching mechanism so that it doesn't redownload twice the same files.
    Hence, if you start the CrossEG downloader more then once during the same day, it's likely that CrossEPG will reuse the cached files (without redownloading) and then the operation will end very quickly.

    If you want CrossEPG to download the files again, previously clear the CrossEPG folder and all its subfolders on the USB pendrive.
  11. Matrix10

    Matrix10 Administrator


    I do not know if it's still so
    Rytec team not allowed download off the EPG several times in a day
    which is now the limit and whether it is still actual I do not know.
  12. mysat-bs

    mysat-bs Vu+ User

    Thanks both of @Matrix10 and @Eragon for your information and tutorial. It is very help for me and maybe for many users who have very limited knowledge in the EPG like me. The main problems for me are that I am not very clear the relationship among the BH's EPG panal, CrossEPG and and CrossEpg downloader. Also I am not very clear about the xmltv and xepgdb. What are the differences between the rytec providers and OpenTV providers are also not very clear. I have not problem to pickup a provider to save and download the data. But which one will be best, or best suitable to me are not clear. What are difference is un-known for me. This is why When I have an EPG issue, I do not now where to look for the solution . However, after a few days studies and helps with the information provided by both of you. I think at least some of issues are more clear than before. I will list my understand parts and some of the parts I still confused, please correct my understanding.

    1. The BH EPG panel is the default BH epgdata download configuration, which is for control how to download the EPG data, where is to download, when is download. It is independent on CrossEPG and CrossEPG downloader plugin.

    2. The CrossEPG function is another BH EPGdata configuration panal, which has many different iterms to be configured. The iterms include how to download, which providers, when is downloading... It is also independent on EPG panel and CrossEPG downloader plugin.

    3. The CrossEPG downloader is an dependent plugin, it is ONLY doing download. How to downoad, and where is downloading from depends on the settings in the CrossEPG configuration.

    4. If I select an epgdata downloading method from servers (rytec providers?), I must make the internet connection ready for the downloading.

    5. If I select an OPen TV provider, It is not necessary to have the network to be connected, the epg configuration setting will find the correct channel to download the epg data.

    Some things I am not very clear.

    1. What are the differences between xmltv and xepgdb? where are them? from satellites or servers or both?
    2. What are The Open Tv providers? Are they free-to-air channels? or somethings else? It looks like some kinds of transpanders which brocast EPGdata, is it correct?
    3. What are the rytec providers? Are they some kinds of Servers, which have EPG data?
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
    Da_Matser and van12 like this.
  13. Eragon

    Eragon Moderator

    1) If you're speaking about Rytec data: none, the only difference is the downloaded file format, XMLTV is an open format, while XEPGDB is a file specifically formatted for CrossEPG and it's faster for the data importing procedure.

    2) OpenTV is a software technology developed for interactive and digital television (see more on Wikipedia).
    Among those specifications there are also a TV Guide standard for downloading embedded EPG data directly from the TV channel.
    Some broadcasters provide this type of EPG.

    3) Rytec providers are graciously provided by a group of volunteers who daily work to prepare and offer a bunch of files with the EPG of some broadcasters. Thanks to them you could download from their URL the proper files with the EPG that you need.
    However their data are not always perfect, so IMHO it's preferable to download the EPG directly from the broadcaster, of course if available.
    van12 and mysat-bs like this.
  14. mysat-bs

    mysat-bs Vu+ User

    Thanks @Eragon for your knowledgeable information and quick reply. Also easy understand technical language. I think I am much clear. I can set the epg config file with more confidence. Thanks again.
  15. bigkenny

    bigkenny Vu+ Newbie

    This is a subject that has bothered me since I got my VU+ Duo approx 2 years ago. I`ve fiddled with these epg settings also having it download at set times. I suppose it also depends on what epg ch`s your after I really only want UK main TV listings (same type in a Sky box) I have a motorised system (one input on motor dish other input on fixed dish at 28.2e) but I would not be able to read the foreign lingo` anyway so not bothered (so thats why for me UK only). I only want the motor in use for English footy when its not on Sky. I dont bother with films trying to find one in English as a week later it will be on Sky UK anyway (or even that same day)

    I`ve found the best way (for me) is using CrossEPG and use OpenTV providers. Set it on SKY UK OpenTV and press yellow (download button) then save it. Then thats it i have the epg for all my UK ch`s for the next 7 days. I do this way about every 4-5 days or so so keeping it well upto date. Only takes a few seconds. I tried the timed down load at set times but sometimes it was freezing my box so might have to do a full re-boot. I`ve found for me the easiest way is the quick download via yellow button on CrossEPG on OpenTV providers.

    Anyway glad its not just me who has been sent dizzy with this subject but I`m happy now as found what works for me best

    van12 and ZiggysDomain like this.
  16. mysat-bs

    mysat-bs Vu+ User

    Thanks @bigkenny for your extra information. I have had several linux receivers since I started to use such receivers a few years ago. However, different receivers use different ways to handle EPG data. Many of epgdata downloading procedures are on background. Some of them only require users to input a satellite position and a channel id. Clearly, when the channel (which carris Epgdata) changes, we lose EPG information. Fortunatelly, BH has more options, therefore we 'd better to understand what are those 'EPG' do? What the cnfiguration lines are? After a few days studie and with kind helps from Matrix10 and Eragan, I think I have had much clear picture now. You are absolutely right. If we only need 28.2E epg, set to use OpenTV as download source, using CrossEpg is a very good, simple and reliable way to have the EPGdata.
  17. DavJames

    DavJames Vu+ Newbie

    Sorry but can someone please simplify the explanation of what the difference is between OpenTV EPG and CrossEPG as I still don't understand? Should I setup both of them or just one of them?
    Da_Matser likes this.
  18. Matrix10

    Matrix10 Administrator

    CrossEPG is plugin to download EPG from internet or from SAT transponder

    OpenTV EPG >> Epg download from channel/SAT transponder
    XMLTV >> download from internet server
  19. DavJames

    DavJames Vu+ Newbie

    OpenTV EPG and CrossEPG both seem to get the EPG from Sky so which should I install?

    What happens if I have both CrossEPG and OpenTV installed?
    Da_Matser likes this.
  20. Eragon

    Eragon Moderator

    You can't have CrossEPG and OpenTV "installed" just because CrossEPG is a plugin/extension (i.e. a kind of application) that can be "installed", while OpenTV is a standard EPG data download protocol, not an application itself.
    Therefore, CrossEPG can use OpenTV protocol to get EPG data from a broadcaster.

    What you are missing is that Black Hole has 2 different preinstalled "applications" that manage EPG Data (indeed there are others too that can be installed): BH EPG and CrossEPG. They are used in different places of BH (i.e. Channel list and Graphical EPG).

    Both can use OpenTV to download EPG data.
    They can share the EPG database, so it's not necessary to set up both to download the same OpenTv source.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
    mysat-bs likes this.

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