Blind Scanning using BH 2.16

[Contact99]

I have a Duo2 using BH 2.1.6 and I would like to know to start with why is it when I use the Blind scan plugin/function to Blind scan a C Band Satellite it finds nothing yet the sat has plenty of Active transponders. Now I haven't tested ku yet.
Now for some extra info For CBAND in my Reception Settings for this Satellite I have the LOF
Set at C BAND NOT USER Define where you set the Lof as USER DEFINED the Lof/L =09750
Lof/H is 10600 and the Threshold being 11700.
You would think that in Reception Settings once you select C Band for a Cband Satellite the Blind scan plugin should show 3400 with the extra zero's to 4200 with the extra zero's not 0950000000 to 2150000000

Any help solving this puzzle would be appreciated.

 

[el bandido]

What country are you in?
The BlackHole blindscan plugin is very old and does not support c band. It can be made to work with c band , but it will have frequency display issues.
You will need to use a different image for c band blindscan.

 

[Contact99]

What country are you in?
but it will have frequency display issues.
You will need to use a different image for c band blindscan.

Country should not be a Problem its just C band as C Band should be the same in any country but as you have stated above its the frequency Display issue that is the problem as in the RECEPTION SETTING for say Ku band I cannot have The local set as 10700 and get the Blind scan to work but if I set it as Under Defined Lof/L 09750 Lof/h 10600 and threshold 11700 it will Blind scan Ku band but the frequencies number don't match up to what I'm normally use to and thats a problem. Its just a pity that 99% of our Ku sats in the south Pacific you have to use a local of 10700 and two others use Universal. I always have wondered why BH have never fixed the C Band issue and allowed for Ku Band blind scanning in where in reception setting you can select if available 10700 as your local and that's it. No doubt there is a issue and a reason for this that most of us don't know about. Yes its a pain but for now I will stick with BH. It would be great to have in Reception setting just Cband as it is and for our Ku to have 10700 as the Local Occ and in the Blind scanning tool you have the range from 3400mhz to 4200mhz C band and say in Ku you have a range of 11700 to 12800 for our Optus satellites.

 

[el bandido]

What country you are in is not a problem, was just curious as to where C band is being used besides North America.

The BlackHole blindscan plugin was designed to work with universal lnb and nothing else. The blindscan plugin could be thought of as an interface for the Vu blindscan binary file. You can make almost any lnb l.o. show the correct frequency if you alter the blindscan plugin. I have done this, and successfully added a L.O. of 10750 Mhz to a blindscan plugin.

Open BlackHole does have a C/Ku blindscan. You may want to try it as it is very similar to the BlackHole image.

 

[Contact99]

What country you are in is not a problem, was just curious as to where C band is being used besides North America.

The BlackHole blindscan plugin was designed to work with universal lnb and nothing else. The blindscan plugin could be thought of as an interface for the Vu blindscan binary file. You can make almost any lnb l.o. show the correct frequency if you alter the blindscan plugin. I have done this, and successfully added a L.O. of 10750 Mhz to a blindscan plugin.

Open BlackHole does have a C/Ku blindscan. You may want to try it as it is very similar to the BlackHole image.

In our region there are a Few C Band Satellites mainly Asiasat 5 at 100 Deg east, Asiasat 7 at 105 deg east Palapa at 113 deg east and half a dozen more that give us in Australia and New Zealand a good footprint coverage.
All our Ku Satellites say about 10 of them you have to use a LNB with a Local off 10700 and If I'm right only two other ku sats where you have to use Universal LNBF.

Question!! If I install Open BH 2.1.7 what are the major features that you know of that are missing from the normal international BH 2.1.7 version. Also Cband is Cband nothing different from one C band to another so if the Open BH allows this that's a ripper but the next major question is does Open Blackhole allow blind scanning Ku with an oscillator of 10700 + Universal

 

[el bandido]

Open BlackHole and BlackHole images should have about the same operating features.
The blindscan plugin in OpenBlackHole supports both universal Ku and C band lnb settings. I have modified the blindscan plugin to work with universal Ku, C band, And 10750 L.O. lnbs. The 10750 lnb was added because it is common in North America.

The Open BlackHole blindscan plugin could probably be modified to work with a 10700 L.O. lnb. What is the difference in the satellites that require a 10700 lnb instead of an universal lnb?

 

[Contact99]

Open BlackHole and BlackHole images should have about the same operating features.
The blindscan plugin in OpenBlackHole supports both universal Ku and C band lnb settings. I have modified the blindscan plugin to work with universal Ku, C band, And 10750 L.O. lnbs. The 10750 lnb was added because it is common in North America.

The Open BlackHole blindscan plugin could probably be modified to work with a 10700 L.O. lnb. What is the difference in the satellites that require a 10700 lnb instead of an universal lnb?

Good point raised!
Since we have a lot of Satellites being used around our region where the lowest frequency is around 12270Mhz and the Highest around 12750 Mhz most of us have got into a habit of using the cheaply available on ebay 10700 LNBF but when it comes to the Sats that use a wide range of frequencies or in this case a lower set of frequencies Optus D3 where the lowest frequency is 11720 Mhz and say Intelsat 18 Ku where the range is from 10995 to 11155 Mhz we use a Universal but the reason why we don't use a Universal LNBF for the more common Sats that have a Frequency range of 12270 to 12750 is a good question. In my dish farm I have at the moment 7 Ku dishes and out of that only two use an universal LNBF. One of my other Ku dishes not one of these 7 also used a Universal LNB (NSS 6 @ 95 deg E) but at the moment is not being used. Maybe it was a expensive false saving mistake using 10700 LNBF as if universal could be used then I should have purchased 10 odd universal LNBF and not waste my money on 10700 LNBF as long as the universal's would work OK on a narrower band Satellite.
I will dig into this and get back to you on this one.
Since Open Black Hole can scan C Band what is the reason why The more common BH Images cannot scan C Band. These must be a more deep rooted problem why Blind a scanning C Band is still an issue

 

[el bandido]

To my understanding, the Vu blindscan works like this:
(1) A binary file has been provided by Vu that allows the receiver or tuner to blindscan. This binary file is closed source and cannot easily be altered by anyone except Vu.
(2) An interface or plugin for the blindscan binary file has been provided that is open source and can easily be altered by anyone with basic Python knowledge. The original authors of the blindscan plugins are unknown to me.

The blindscan interlace or plugin will allow some scan parameters to be set, and these parameters may be altered or adjusted by changing the Python coding. Blindscan is made possible by scanning the line or IF frequency of 950-2150 MHz. Anything that is found in this frequency range is automatically converted to universal lnb frequencies.
C band blindscan is made possible by adding a math coding routine to the blindscan plugin to show the correct frequencies for C band instead of the false universal Ku frequencies. That is all there to it.

The reason Why BlackHole has not modified their plugin to accommodate C band is a mystery to me because almost every other image has C and Ku bands in their blindscan plugin.

 

[Contact99]

Thanks for that Valued Infirmation.
Right today's entertainment

1/ I replaced 4 of my Old 10700 LNB's that would only work on a local of 10700.
2/ Replaced them with 4 Spare sharp 4 Port Lnbf's

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Satellite-10700-Quad-Ku-Band-LNB-Cable-TV-Full-HD-Digital-Foxtel-Austar-VAST-/261341877307?hash=item3cd930943b

3/ Set the duo2 to Universal for the first time
4/ Re boot the duo2
5/ Blind scan all 4 Sats with a 10700 LNB set at Universal and we have Action and all Transponders get selected and have the correct Frequencies.

NOW! As for the Old 10700 LNB's I removed they only worked on a local of 10700 (set in reception Settings) and forget the setting Universal as there were no pics no scanning no nothing so work that out.

 

[el bandido]

The 10700 lnb that is in your link is actually an universal lnb.
Look at these specs for it:

• Model No: BS1R8AR428A
• Input Frequency: 10.7 to 11.7 (Low Band), 11.7 to 12.75 (High Band)
• Output Frequency: 950 to 1950 (Low Band), 1100 to 2150 (High Band)

 

[Contact99]

The 10700 lnb that is in your link is actually an universal lnb.
Look at these specs for it:

• Model No: BS1R8AR428A
• Input Frequency: 10.7 to 11.7 (Low Band), 11.7 to 12.75 (High Band)
• Output Frequency: 950 to 1950 (Low Band), 1100 to 2150 (High Band)

All is working very well now for Ku blind scanning with thanks and I do agree that there is some confusion with these LNB's as how can it be a 10700 Local Oscillator LNB and you have to set it a Universal on the Duo2 so it works with the Blind scanning Plugin. this makes no sense. But on the other hand if you have a LNB with a Local like the above of 10700 if any frequency is below 11700 I was told you have to have an proper Universal LNB. An example is Intelsat 18 At 180 deg East. Look at the Ku frequencies 10995H 11075V, 11155V The 10700 Local Oscillator LNB will not work on the transponders that have Frequencies lower than 11700. Now I have not tested this for myself but I will be soon when I replace my Intelsat 18 Ku dish.

 

[el bandido]

A lnb takes a high frequency and converts it to a lower frequency. This is done in part so we can use a smaller coax or feed between the lnb and the back of the receiver.

The IF or Line frequncy of most fta receivers is about 950 MHz to 2150 MHz. The lnb takes the higher frequencies from the satellite and converts Down to the range of 950-2150 MHz. Knowing this, you can use math to calculate what a particular lnb l.o. could cover.
Here are a couple of examples for the Ku Band.
A 10600 l.o. could possibly cover 11550 MHz (950 + 10600) TO 12750 MHz (2150 + 10600)
A 10750 l.o. could possibly cover 11700 MHz (950 + 10750) TO 12900 MHz (2150 + 10750)

For C band, You need to subtract the line frequency from the l.o. frequency.
A 5150 l.o. could cover 3000 MHz (5150 - 2150) TO 4200 MHz (5150 - 950).
FTA C band lnbs do not cover the entire 950-2150 band because there is no satellite tv at 3000 MHz.

 

[Contact99]

Well I just found out that using these 10700 LNB's like the above although they find the channel via Blind scanning the Duo2 shows an incorrect frequency. I will give you an example.
Intelsat 19 Ku 166 Deg East Channel RTS the real frequency is 12526 H, Symbol rate 30000, FEC 3/4. The duo 2 bring it up at 11575H, S/R 30000 FEC 3/4. I will have to try a Universal LNB and not the 10700 that I have now. For me its important that Ku blind scans ok and its important that the correct frequency shows up on the duo2.

 

[el bandido]

The difference between the two frequencies is about 950 MHz. Looks like you scanned using a lnb with a 10700 l.o., but the receiver thought it should be a 9750 l.o.

 

[Contact99]

The difference between the two frequencies is about 950 MHz. Looks like you scanned using a lnb with a 10700 l.o., but the receiver thought it should be a 9750 l.o.

Well after fitting a proper Universal LNB today for the first time I've been able to Blind scan Ku frequencies and once loaded into the box all transponders have the correct frequency matching my list and Matching Lyngsat.

See to blind scan you need the Universal setting in Reception Setting set as Universal and not User defind as 10700 because if you use User defind blind with settings 10700 Blind scanning will not be possible (not work at all) but if you use the 10700 LNB and set that as universal in reception settings blind scanning will be possible but most of the transponders will show incorrect frequencies which make the box useless as if you want to manually scan a transponder with the correct frequencies IT WILL NOT WORK AT ALL!!.
Finally sorted it out. Now its time to purchase some twin port Universal LNBF''s

 

[Contact99]

The difference between the two frequencies is about 950 MHz. Looks like you scanned using a lnb with a 10700 l.o., but the receiver thought it should be a 9750 l.o.

Yes this is correct.

 

[Contact99]

Well I got some bad news and that the Duo2 is doing everything it needs now for Ku blind scanning but the problem is when I set the other 5 Boxes I have+ the duo2 that feed off an multiswitch I have nothing but problem. I have set all other boxes to use Universal not 10700 anymore but all they do is lock each other up of if you change polarity the Duo2 and others 'eg' Openboxes S10 and S16, + AZBox ,Ultral Plus 900 all misbehave. Now the Openboxes give you 4 choices of Universal being Say (9750-10600) or (9750-10700) or 9750- 10750) another but I have the more common one being Universal (9750-10600) . what a pain. Really what is needed is that Blind scanning plugin in the Duo2 is to support a 10700 LNB.

 

[el bandido]

Why do you have to blindscan these satellites? Is the information for the channels published, or do you have to hunt for channels like we do in the U.S.? Is it possible to take the channel or transponder information from the 5 other receivers and transfer it to the Duo2?
If the 6 receivers (5 + the Duo2) do not work together using universal lnbs, why will they work together using a 10700 lnb?

 

[Contact99]

Why do you have to blindscan these satellites? Is the information for the channels published, or do you have to hunt for channels like we do in the U.S.? Is it possible to take the channel or transponder information from the 5 other receivers and transfer it to the Duo2?
If the 6 receivers (5 + the Duo2) do not work together using universal lnbs, why will they work together using a 10700 lnb?

Yes my friend I have a very complicated system and I like feed hunting and if it wasn't for my paid version of EBS Pro I would partly be in the shit although my collection of Openboxes that use a local oscillator set at 10700 or even Universal ALL of them blind scan correctly.
See the duo2 being such a great box is the boss and the rest of the Openboxes the S9,S10,S16 and AZBox , UltraPlus are secondary boxes but how the system works is I have the duo2 going to a 8 port DISEqC switch and each input of the DISEqC switch goes to a Spaun multiSwitch and each of the two outputs of the Multiswitch goes to a twin LNB so by this you can see that the Duo2 can go via a DISEqC switch to a Multiswitch and then to the dish and we have pictures. NOW!! That is Sat input 1 on the Duo2. The Second input on the duo2 copies the same as the First.
Now all the other receivers have there own DISEqC switch either a 4 porter or an 8 porter DISEqC SW and there cables run back and connect to any of the 10 Plus multi switches I have and by having this system like this I can sit in my lounge room with multiple monitors on all on Different channels watching all of them at the same time and if I like one it takes me a second to send it to my hundred inch screen in the middle. Now the Duo2 Controls my motorized (DISEqC 1.2) dish via a VBOX and with all of this after some initial niggling problems the entire system ran like clockwork until I introduce the UNIVERSAL setting on the duo2 for the one and only reason and that is to utilize this Expensive box and give it the ability to blind scan ku and Cband (well on this image Cband will not work at all) but after giving the Duo2 a Universal setting so blind scan would work it forced me to change all other boxes to Universal (9750-10600) and this is where the problem started.
The Problem

If I leave the Duo2 turned off, turn on ALL OTHER BOXES with there new Universal setting and new Universal LNB's all works perfect UNTIL I tun on the Duo2 as when the Duo2 is turned on the Duo2 the Openboxes and other all start to misbehave as in Pixalating, the Channel locks up on and off the channel on one box disappears after you change channel, they all again misbehave and when I turn the Duo2 off all are ok so work that out.

Now I have noticed that for a example the Openboxs have 4 Universal settings being 9750-10550, 9750-10600, 9750-10700, 9750-10750 for these and other boxes I have selected 9750-10600 but for the duo2 it has only Universal so since it has only one Universal which one of the 4 is it. I do understand that possibly using the Setting USER DEFINE you could select any of the 4 above but have not tried this.
As for your above question of taking the blind scan info from the Openboxes and transferring it to a manual update to the Duo2 yes this is one way I have been doing it but my computer room is set for ALL blind scanning via EBS Pro and use SmartDVB and DVB Dream to do what I want in the computer room.

The Logic behind this issue

Well I have a great collection of Openboxes and soon I will be buying a Openbox V8 and all they have cost me is around $80 each and they blind scan correctly either on 10700 or Universal yet the Masterpiece the Duo2 that cost me a arm and a leg by the time I got it into Australia and I feel embarrassed to say that it fails in the most wanted option being the Blind scanning but saying that this this could be possible fixed by changing to another image ( but I like BH images) or trying BH Open image.

OOO Well Time for a rest now, will have to scratch my head on what do I have to do to get the Duo2 to blind scan correctly and leave it on 10700 like the other boxes or even Universal without pissing the other boxes off.

 

[Contact99]

Just done some more digging as it seems that if I only have two Sat boxes on being say the Duo2 and any Open box both using a Universal setting for that sat and both boxes going to the same Spaun Multi switch they will wipe each other out. Now if I do the same to another Sat a 10700 Sat using 10700 on both boxes there is no problem whatsoever. So what is it that a Spaun Multiswitch SMS 287F does not like two boxes on at the same time using the setting Universal?.
Just a matter of interest the Sat Dish that has the Universal LNB does not get much use so its possible that this problem has been here for a while and I did not pick it up as if I watch it only one box mainly the duo2 is on at any given time.